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Paint And Patina Question


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#1 Milbrose

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Posted 17 May 2006 - 09:49 AM

painting after soldering......

ok here is the dilemna I have been asked to do some trophies for an upcoming event... the trophies are a logo
I will need to make about 150 of the darned things.....

the problem is that hte logo is a dog design....

so its a blue dog in the middle of a blue oval... two different shades... and the outline of the dog is a yellow line that connects several stars.... think of the old astronomy books that show the constellation and then have the lines connecting the stars so you can see casseiopia or whatever... know what I mean..???

so my dilemna

that line is supposed to be yellow or gold and the starts of cours can be either cut in glass or painted in......

so is there a gold patina???? that would work... but i havent seen anything but copper which wouldnt be quite right......

or can I paint the line in after I have soldered and then can I bake after i have soldered???? how have you guys done this type of thing???? what works best for you????

here is a picture of the logo....... any thoughts would be appreciated.


http://2007.flatcoat.us/

#2 Dawnt

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Posted 17 May 2006 - 03:50 PM

QUOTE(Milbrose @ May 17 2006, 08:49 AM)
painting after soldering......

ok here is the dilemna I have been asked to do some trophies for an upcoming event... the trophies are a logo
I will need to make about 150 of the darned things.....

the problem is that hte logo is a dog design....

so its a blue dog in the middle of a blue oval... two different shades... and the outline of the dog is a yellow line that connects several stars.... think of the old astronomy books that show the constellation and then have the lines connecting the stars so you can see casseiopia or whatever... know what I mean..???

so my dilemna

that line is supposed to be yellow or gold and the starts of cours can be either cut in glass or painted in......

so is there a gold patina???? that would work... but i havent seen anything but copper which wouldnt be quite right......

or can I paint the line in after I have soldered and then can I bake after i have soldered???? how have you guys done this type of thing???? what works best for you????

here is a picture of the logo....... any thoughts would be appreciated.
http://2007.flatcoat.us/

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You're wanting to paint the lead line, right? If that is the case, I'd use an enamel gold fleck paint. Got me on the best way to do the stars, though. 8freaks.gif

#3 Tod Beall

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Posted 17 May 2006 - 04:24 PM

ok here is the dilemna I have been asked to do some trophies for an upcoming event... the trophies are a logo
I will need to make about 150 of the darned things.....

the problem is that hte logo is a dog design....

Milbrose:
This doesn't have to be a leaded/foiled glass problem, does it?
It looks like an etched attack could work, too. I picture blue-on-yellow flashed glass, lightly etched where the dog is and more deeply carved where the
outline and stars are. I may not have the sandbalsters' terms quite right, but
maybe the idea comes through? Some people paint the sandbalsted areas, too. Cheaper raw materials than flashed glass, without doubt. Somewhere out there is a sandblasting discussion board...

I think it REALLY would be better with acid-etching but would never recommend that to a novice (or to anyone, actually!).

Another cool option could be to have a waterjet shop cut the positive and negative shapes and bond (fuse?) them, maybe on a yellow base. 'course, then you'd have another 150 pieces of dark dogs and light backgrounds to get rid of!
Just brainstorming! Good luck - Tod

#4 Vic

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Posted 17 May 2006 - 05:04 PM

This is a perfect job for acid etching. You get dark blue on clear flashed glass. Etch down the dog to light blue. Etch the yellow/gold areas to clear. Paint the clear parts with silver stain. As Tod said, acid work is NOT for beginners.

#5 Milbrose

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Posted 17 May 2006 - 05:32 PM

QUOTE(Vic @ May 17 2006, 05:04 PM)
This is a perfect job for acid etching. You get dark blue on clear flashed glass. Etch down the dog to light blue. Etch the yellow/gold areas to clear. Paint the clear parts with silver stain.  As Tod said, acid work is NOT for beginners.

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yeah this is what I kinda thought.... it seems like with the number I have to do and the time constraints that this may not be a project that I want to undertake at this time.... I have been looking at this logo for days trying to figure out the best way to do it and I cam up with some of the same thoughts as you guys did.....
maybe I should tell them to go and buy some etched glass at things remembered and be done with it..... its a bad logo......
thanks you guys
s


#6 Boris_USA

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Posted 17 May 2006 - 05:36 PM

QUOTE(Milbrose @ May 17 2006, 09:49 AM)
painting after soldering......

ok here is the dilemna I have been asked to do some trophies for an upcoming event... the trophies are a logo
I will need to make about 150 of the darned things.....

the problem is that hte logo is a dog design....

so its a blue dog in the middle of a blue oval... two different shades... and the outline of the dog is a yellow line that connects several stars.... think of the old astronomy books that show the constellation and then have the lines connecting the stars so you can see casseiopia or whatever... know what I mean..???

so my dilemna

that line is supposed to be yellow or gold and the starts of cours can be either cut in glass or painted in......

so is there a gold patina???? that would work... but i havent seen anything but copper which wouldnt be quite right......

or can I paint the line in after I have soldered and then can I bake after i have soldered???? how have you guys done this type of thing???? what works best for you????

here is a picture of the logo....... any thoughts would be appreciated.
http://2007.flatcoat.us/

View Post



Interesting pattern. Lots of good advice, many ways to do this. One big consideration? The amount, 150 pieces. That just about eliminates any "fancy" time intensive method. Would not be cost effective, nor practical in man hours. Also, a "Trophy" is not really a work of art, just a nice piece. Maybe a dark blue sheet of glass for base, and a glass enamel painted dog (done with a stencil and airbrush" ) Finish up with a striping brush, or liner, and gold enamel glass paint, then fire as needed. Add a nice border, and done. Even keeping it that simple may take 1 hour or more per. Thats 150 hours. 3.0 + work weeks, at 8 hour days. If it takes longer than an hour, double that. Most shops are not production shops, and this is a production project. Needs to be simple, organized, and clean. Spending 3 or 4 hours on each piece? Do the math, for 150 pieces. MAJOR labor intensive.

Just a different opinion....

#7 Milbrose

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Posted 17 May 2006 - 06:56 PM

QUOTE(Boris_USA @ May 17 2006, 05:36 PM)
Interesting pattern. Lots of good advice, many ways to do this. One big consideration? The amount, 150 pieces. That just about eliminates any "fancy" time intensive method. Would not be cost effective, nor practical in man hours.  Also, a "Trophy" is not really a work of art, just a nice piece. Maybe a dark blue sheet of glass for base, and a glass enamel painted dog (done with a stencil and airbrush" ) Finish up with a striping brush, or liner, and gold enamel glass paint, then fire as needed. Add a nice border, and done. Even keeping it that simple may take 1  hour or more per. Thats 150 hours. 3.0 + work weeks, at 8 hour days. If it takes longer than an  hour, double that.  Most shops are not production shops, and this is a production project. Needs to be simple, organized, and clean.  Spending 3 or 4 hours on each piece? Do the math, for 150 pieces.  MAJOR labor intensive.

Just a different opinion....

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well see thats just it and ya know what... I would be BORED OUT OF MY MIND ..... I would do them for her as it is a friend and it is my breed..... (I show and breed these dogs) so I have a vested interest in doing this inexpensively for them..... and I doubt they could really afford to buy them for what they would really cost.... but thats the problem... I couldn't think of a quick easy and fast way to do them and have them look like what she wouild want them to look like.....

am not into mass production .....
thanks fo rthe input though....
S

#8 Tod Beall

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 02:23 PM

...am not into mass production .....
thanks for the input though....

Milbrose:
I had a friend who custom silk screened coffee mugs by the thousands. Besides all the basic colors, they had a brilliant gold enamel which required a second firing. Still, making the screen(s) and printing and firing these would have taken them less than a week.

Maybe your yellow pages or computer could help you find an awards maker or some-such in your neighborhood? You could get price and delivery from them - maybe make 10% for your troubles if you stay in the middle. This isn't brain surgery. Somebody does this stuff all day long, all year long. Just 'caused we're glassy folks, sometimes we can't see the real-world forest for the glass trees.
- Tod




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