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#1 ClassyGlassyR

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Posted 10 November 2006 - 01:47 PM

Hi all. I'm new to the site and brand new to the hobby. I just started taking a stained glass class at my area art center. I've always been interested and am enjoying the art so far (already one project finished to completion) but I have a few concerns I'd like to address with people who know best. My teacher is very reliable and helpful and has been in the hobby for almost ten years herself. But seeing as I'm paranoid about safety (and I do mean paranoid!), I'd like some reassurance...

1) Do you need any inhalation protection (nose mask) when grinding the glass? Of course you need safety glasses and you get hit with lots of tiny glass shrapnel on your arms and face a bit. My concern is that you can't actually inhale those granules can you? I do know about glass dust after things dry up during clean up or around, you need to wet mop and the glass dust is fine and white powdery. In our class we don't use masks, just glasses.

2) How scary is flux? We use a liquid flux in our class. We don't wear gloves during fluxing or soldering. I try to touch the project after fluxing as minimally as possible with my bare fingers, maybe hold it with a paper towel. The time I did touch it I had a cut I didn't know about and WOW does that sting! So is it OK to have skin contact with the flux as you solder as long as you wash well afterwards or...?

3) Does flux wash off well with antibacterial dishsoap, warm water, and a scrub brush when you're cleaning up the finished project?

4) How scary are 60/40 lead fumes and flux fumes? We don't wear ventilation masks during this process either. We turn on the ceiling exhaust and we use little fume trap boxes next to our stations. I stand during the soldering process and try to work in front of me, not hovering directly over the fumes.

So, all in all I just need to know if I need ventilation masks during any processes or hand protection from flux chemicals or are our methods fine with some common sense? I'm enjoying my new hobby but these concerns are starting to dampen my enthusiasm. Help!

#2 Chantal

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Posted 10 November 2006 - 05:54 PM

(1) When grinding, you don't need inhalation protection, because the grinder is wet! The glass particles fall into the water basin below the grinder head.

(2) Touching flux is very bad if you suffer from contact dermatitis. I always solder with gloves on, although many people don't. I am very sensitive to it.

(3) Flux is best cleaned with a neutralizing solution for this purpose.

(4) Always solder in a well ventilated area - with the air flow drawing the fumes away from you, of course!

#3 ClassyGlassyR

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 11:13 PM

Thanks for your reply. What kind of gloves do you use? I was thinking of using medical disposable latex gloves?

Are you the Chantal of Chantal's Stained Glass?

#4 mona

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 09:38 AM

QUOTE(ClassyGlassyR @ Nov 12 2006, 10:13 PM)  

Thanks for your reply. What kind of gloves do you use? I was thinking of using medical disposable latex gloves?

Are you the Chantal of Chantal's Stained Glass?



disposable latex gloves would work fine. The better the fit the better for you as you don't want to be melting you gloves on to you projects.

I don't use gloves during any of the processes. But as Chantal said, if you have sensitive skin, should use something. Just remember to relax and enjoy yourself! Otherwise it won't be fun!!

And yes it is the same wonderful Chantal !

#5 malkore

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 01:18 PM

probably get Nitrile gloves...just a little thicker than regular latex gloves, and more re-usable.

paste flux is harder to wash off than liquid flux.

flux neutralizer is best, but in a pinch, regular Windex will work, since the ammonia inside helps neutralize the acidic flux.

grinding: you use a wet grinder...there should be no dust, just small bits of glass much too large to inhale unless you tried to snort them up on purpose.

#6 Pyro167

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Posted 19 November 2006 - 02:33 PM

Classy,

I have been doing stained glass for 20 years as a hobby and profession. The things I recommend to my students are:

1. When grinding glass it is a personal choice, I wear a disposable paper mask you can get at any hardware store. Glass ground even "WET" is silica; it can potentially damage your lungs if something is accidentally inhaled. If you use a wet grinder the potential is small, but can still happen.
2. Flux, like any chemical should be handled with care. I would recommend that you use a water based flux. It cleans up easier and because of that if you get some on your skin it cleans off with water and soap. You can wear gloves if your skin is sensitive to it, but for most it is not a problem. Any time you have an open sore on your hand it should be covered, not just because of the flux, but the ground glass, the lead and any other chemical you may use.
3. DON’T USE ANTIBACTERIAL SOAP! It is a waste of everyone’s money. A bacterium does not grow in any soap used, meaning ALL soap is antibacterial. When I clean a project I just use regular dish soap and water.
4. You are handling the lead and fumes just fine. Ventilation is the trick, if you are worried buy a mask at the hardware store designed for those fumes. You’ll look funny, but will be well protected.

I am also a Firefighter/Paramedic and have my blood checked for heavy metal every year with my physical and lead has NEVER showed up in my blood. Stained glass is a great hobby and profession, be smart and you’ll be fine.

Eric

#7 glassyartgirl

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Posted 05 May 2007 - 02:06 PM

QUOTE(Pyro167 @ Nov 19 2006, 12:33 PM)  
Classy,

I have been doing stained glass for 20 years as a hobby and profession. The things I recommend to my students are:

1. When grinding glass it is a personal choice, I wear a disposable paper mask you can get at any hardware store. Glass ground even "WET" is silica; it can potentially damage your lungs if something is accidentally inhaled. If you use a wet grinder the potential is small, but can still happen.
2. Flux, like any chemical should be handled with care. I would recommend that you use a water based flux. It cleans up easier and because of that if you get some on your skin it cleans off with water and soap. You can wear gloves if your skin is sensitive to it, but for most it is not a problem. Any time you have an open sore on your hand it should be covered, not just because of the flux, but the ground glass, the lead and any other chemical you may use.
3. DON’T USE ANTIBACTERIAL SOAP! It is a waste of everyone’s money. A bacterium does not grow in any soap used, meaning ALL soap is antibacterial. When I clean a project I just use regular dish soap and water.
4. You are handling the lead and fumes just fine. Ventilation is the trick, if you are worried buy a mask at the hardware store designed for those fumes. You’ll look funny, but will be well protected.

I am also a Firefighter/Paramedic and have my blood checked for heavy metal every year with my physical and lead has NEVER showed up in my blood. Stained glass is a great hobby and profession, be smart and you’ll be fine.

Eric



Hello all... I started seeing a Naturopath to get back on the road of healthly living recently because I had an episode of Pancreatitis. I know it had absolutely nothing to do with working with stained glass, but I do have a great concern about lead at this time.
Now to get to why I am reply to this thread.
I too have had blood tests to check on lead levels about once a year with my (GP)Doctor. Thankfully, the test always came back negative for lead. Or was I thankful? My question is if the blood testing is a correct way of checking for lead.

I was ordered a urine toxic metal test with my naturopath and my results came back yesterday...The results of this test showed urine lead exceeds three times the upper expected limit. Because most of the body burden of lead is exceted in urine, this finding indicates significant burden with attemp of detoxicaton.
The attempt of detox was, my naturopath gave me 8 pills and was told to drink 3 litres of water in 6 hours, and collect the urine each time I went to the bathroom. I know this is probably gross to read but if its a more efficient way of testing for lead then maybe it's alternative to bloodwork.

Sources of lead include old lead pigment Paints,Batteries,Industrial Smelting and Alloying, some SOLDERS, Glazes on (foreign) ceramics,Leaded (anti knocking) fuels, Bullets,and Fishing sinkers, Artists paints with lead pigments, and Leaded joints in some municipul water systems.
Most lead contamination ccurs via oral ingestion of contaminated food or water or by children mouthing or eating lead containing substances.
So, we need to wash our hands thouroughly before eating, drinking or even smoking when you are handling lead poducts and chemials.
One more thing ,I use 60/40 solder and I also had Tin come back as one of the metal toxins in my body. Tin can be also absorbed from baking pan & cooking with tinfoil.
Well here is some food for thought. Be Careful !!!

Warm Regards
Rosanna
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#8 glassyartgirl

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Posted 05 May 2007 - 02:06 PM

QUOTE(Pyro167 @ Nov 19 2006, 12:33 PM)  
Classy,

I have been doing stained glass for 20 years as a hobby and profession. The things I recommend to my students are:

1. When grinding glass it is a personal choice, I wear a disposable paper mask you can get at any hardware store. Glass ground even "WET" is silica; it can potentially damage your lungs if something is accidentally inhaled. If you use a wet grinder the potential is small, but can still happen.
2. Flux, like any chemical should be handled with care. I would recommend that you use a water based flux. It cleans up easier and because of that if you get some on your skin it cleans off with water and soap. You can wear gloves if your skin is sensitive to it, but for most it is not a problem. Any time you have an open sore on your hand it should be covered, not just because of the flux, but the ground glass, the lead and any other chemical you may use.
3. DON’T USE ANTIBACTERIAL SOAP! It is a waste of everyone’s money. A bacterium does not grow in any soap used, meaning ALL soap is antibacterial. When I clean a project I just use regular dish soap and water.
4. You are handling the lead and fumes just fine. Ventilation is the trick, if you are worried buy a mask at the hardware store designed for those fumes. You’ll look funny, but will be well protected.

I am also a Firefighter/Paramedic and have my blood checked for heavy metal every year with my physical and lead has NEVER showed up in my blood. Stained glass is a great hobby and profession, be smart and you’ll be fine.

Eric



Hello all... I started seeing a Naturopath to get back on the road of healthly living recently because I had an episode of Pancreatitis. I know it had absolutely nothing to do with working with stained glass, but I do have a great concern about lead at this time.
Now to get to why I am reply to this thread.
I too have had blood tests to check on lead levels about once a year with my (GP)Doctor. Thankfully, the test always came back negative for lead. Or was I thankful? My question is if the blood testing is a correct way of checking for lead.

I was ordered a urine toxic metal test with my naturopath and my results came back yesterday...The results of this test showed urine lead exceeds three times the upper expected limit. Because most of the body burden of lead is exceted in urine, this finding indicates significant burden with attemp of detoxicaton.
The attempt of detox was, my naturopath gave me 8 pills and was told to drink 3 litres of water in 6 hours, and collect the urine each time I went to the bathroom. I know this is probably gross to read but if its a more efficient way of testing for lead then maybe it's alternative to bloodwork.

Sources of lead include old lead pigment Paints,Batteries,Industrial Smelting and Alloying, some SOLDERS, Glazes on (foreign) ceramics,Leaded (anti knocking) fuels, Bullets,and Fishing sinkers, Artists paints with lead pigments, and Leaded joints in some municipal water systems.
Most lead contamination ccurs via oral ingestion of contaminated food or water or by children mouthing or eating lead containing substances.
So, we need to wash our hands thouroughly before eating, drinking or even smoking when you are handling lead poducts and chemials.
One more thing ,I use 60/40 solder and I also had Tin come back as one of the metal toxins in my body. Tin can be also absorbed from baking pan & cooking with tinfoil.
Well here is some food for thought. Be Careful !!!

Warm Regards
Rosanna
peace.gif

#9 Saltream

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Posted 17 June 2007 - 05:03 PM

I have been in this trade for twenty + years and hope to be for another twenty +.
The dust from the grinder is possibly one of the worst waist products you will get.
If it gets into your body via cuts or if you eat with it on your hands.
Yes its true most of the wet dust goes in the tank under the grinding wheel but if you don’t have a proper guard around the grinder some wet dust will travel. So be sure your guard is up. You should use a mask .I do and I am a some years of cutting glass ahead of you and I very rarely use a grinder.

The flux I use for stained glass with lead calm is called tallow (animal fat) so the fumes are not harmful. But the liquid flux can be toxic. Have some ventilation.

Lead is a silent killer ANY solder used for stained glass has lead in it and that lead become air born in fume form when melted. Lead will also get into your body if you don’t wear gloves.

My advice is to get as much ventilation as possible, latex gloves, disposable facemask and get your blood tested now to get a benchmark of your lead level.

regards saltream

#10 Clive

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Posted 17 June 2007 - 07:42 PM

Lead is not absorbed through the hands the molucule it too large -except for tetraethyl lead that used to be in leaded gasoline.

==========================================

Lead Poisoning:

Lead poisoning is caused by the absorption of lead into the body through breathing and eating, (inhalation and ingestion). Lead can slowly cause irreversible damage, first to individual cells, then to the organs and whole body systems.

* Breathing lead dust from the air is the most frequent source of adult workplace exposure.
* Lead is also swallowed and absorbed through the digestive system.
o Adults usually transfer lead from their hands to their mouths by contaminated materials and then handling food, cigarettes, chewing tobacco, or make-up.
o Children play in lead contaminated house dust and dirt and then swallow the lead with their food. Some children deliberately eat paint or dirt - a habit called 'pica'.
* Most lead compounds are not absorbed through the skin (except for tetraethyl lead that used to be in leaded gasoline).


TAKEN FROM A GOOD SOURCE.

http://www.ecy.wa.go...s2/lpoison.html

#11 Pyro167

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Posted 17 June 2007 - 08:14 PM

Clive, Thanks for the post and update. The info. you gave was correct, the only problem I have, "and its my problem" is that the Government has a tendency to go OVERBOARD on everything. I know its only to protect us, but you know the story about how big the fish was when you caught it? They do the same. Everyone has caught the jest of it all, error to the safe side. I even started to use an air purifier in my studio for myself and my students.

Eric

#12 Saltream

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 03:55 PM

Thanks Clive I have learnt something new.
Lead particles being too big to enter the body through the hands.
All the time I’ve been in this trade I have always had gloves on .
That link is worth reading maybe others should have a look to.

thanks saltream

#13 twillobee

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 06:23 PM

Classy,

I have been doing stained glass for 20 years as a hobby and profession. The things I recommend to my students are:

1. When grinding glass it is a personal choice, I wear a disposable paper mask you can get at any hardware store. Glass ground even "WET" is silica; it can potentially damage your lungs if something is accidentally inhaled. If you use a wet grinder the potential is small, but can still happen.
2. Flux, like any chemical should be handled with care. I would recommend that you use a water based flux. It cleans up easier and because of that if you get some on your skin it cleans off with water and soap. You can wear gloves if your skin is sensitive to it, but for most it is not a problem. Any time you have an open sore on your hand it should be covered, not just because of the flux, but the ground glass, the lead and any other chemical you may use.
3. DON’T USE ANTIBACTERIAL SOAP! It is a waste of everyone’s money. A bacterium does not grow in any soap used, meaning ALL soap is antibacterial. When I clean a project I just use regular dish soap and water.
4. You are handling the lead and fumes just fine. Ventilation is the trick, if you are worried buy a mask at the hardware store designed for those fumes. You’ll look funny, but will be well protected.

I am also a Firefighter/Paramedic and have my blood checked for heavy metal every year with my physical and lead has NEVER showed up in my blood. Stained glass is a great hobby and profession, be smart and you’ll be fine.

Eric



Eric,

I just came across another safety item from my eye doctor. I always thought the ventalation while soldering was for the fumes that you breath in, I found another reason to use the fume extractor. I wear glasses when I solder never thought about additional protection. My eye dr said the acid in the fumes can cause spots on the cornea. Never heard about that before. I'm still doing my stained glass that I love, just added a fume extractor instead of just ventalation.

#14 Boris_USA

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 07:08 PM

Eric,

I just came across another safety item from my eye doctor. I always thought the ventalation while soldering was for the fumes that you breath in, I found another reason to use the fume extractor. I wear glasses when I solder never thought about additional protection. My eye dr said the acid in the fumes can cause spots on the cornea. Never heard about that before. I'm still doing my stained glass that I love, just added a fume extractor instead of just ventalation.


Thats a new one on me too. I would think that your eyes would water and be irritated before that would happen, mixing with the natural moisture in your eyes, and you would have to use a ton of flux, since most flux is not a high percentage of acid. Your best ventilation is a fan drawing the fumes to the outside. If not possible, the extractor is good choice.

#15 twillobee

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 08:50 AM

Thats a new one on me too. I would think that your eyes would water and be irritated before that would happen, mixing with the natural moisture in your eyes, and you would have to use a ton of flux, since most flux is not a high percentage of acid. Your best ventilation is a fan drawing the fumes to the outside. If not possible, the extractor is good choice.



I had never heard of it before either. I had originally went in thinking I might have gotten glass in my eye (luckily no) and he found the spots on the cornea. I told them I wear glasses when working and he said that it was a "risk of the trade". Best protection is an extractor (going outside is best), eye wear and ventilation. I tend to get so involved in projects that I work non stop until 2 - 3 in the am. I may have even been "too close" to the work since I wear glasses to see up close so that might have contributed to it. Now I try to sit farther away. I just thought I would send out this safety measure since like you, never heard of the fumes effecting your eyes.

#16 Boris_USA

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Posted 23 February 2010 - 12:51 AM

I had never heard of it before either. I had originally went in thinking I might have gotten glass in my eye (luckily no) and he found the spots on the cornea. I told them I wear glasses when working and he said that it was a "risk of the trade". Best protection is an extractor (going outside is best), eye wear and ventilation. I tend to get so involved in projects that I work non stop until 2 - 3 in the am. I may have even been "too close" to the work since I wear glasses to see up close so that might have contributed to it. Now I try to sit farther away. I just thought I would send out this safety measure since like you, never heard of the fumes effecting your eyes.


Like you, I think I will back off a bit. I get too close to my work too, doing a lot of tiny things and details. I also stay up too late at times, when involved, so we are a lot alike there. Anyway, better safe tha sorry, and he is the guy with the degree,,, Oo..oO

#17 Rebecca

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Posted 23 February 2010 - 11:20 AM

I used to work at a chemical factory and we were not supposed to wear contacts. They said it was possible for fumes to get under the contacts and burn the cornea. It sounds like the same thing.

Rebecca




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