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What Size Came Can I Use?


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#1 kujo

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 10:01 PM

what thickness of came can use? I am about to start a large leaded window and I would like to use the narrowest came that I can safely get away with. It's a very detailed window, and I plan the size to be 6 foot x 4 foot. Any suggestions?


#2 Savant

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Posted 11 April 2008 - 12:07 AM

QUOTE(kujo @ Apr 10 2008, 08:01 PM) View Post
what thickness of came can use? I am about to start a large leaded window and I would like to use the narrowest came that I can safely get away with. It's a very detailed window, and I plan the size to be 6 foot x 4 foot. Any suggestions?


Hey Kujo,

For a piece this large, regardless of where it’s going, a minimum of ½” came on the outside should be used.
I recommend a combination of cames.
3/16” round face lead came for the majority of the field.
5/32” and even 1/8” lead came can be used in the more complex areas in the design.
1/8” is as narrow as it gets, and can be very unforgiving.
At least three ½” pre-tined steel rebars should be used on this one.

24 square feet! that rocks

Sav

#3 olimpia

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Posted 11 April 2008 - 08:16 AM

Hi
Any chance this panel can be sub-divided? You have 20 perimeter feet, that's above what is accepted as safe, but I have to admit I have done them that size when there is no possibility to sub-dividing.

If you can't subdivide, make sure you use several re-bars and maybe even some fins, depending on the design. Can you show us the design?

I think Sav's suggestion as to came size sounds perfect. Combine depending on the design, the larger ones for larger pieces the smaller ones for more intricate work.

#4 kujo

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Posted 11 April 2008 - 09:12 AM

QUOTE(olimpia @ Apr 11 2008, 06:16 AM) View Post
Hi
Any chance this panel can be sub-divided? You have 20 perimeter feet, that's above what is accepted as safe, but I have to admit I have done them that size when there is no possibility to sub-dividing.

If you can't subdivide, make sure you use several re-bars and maybe even some fins, depending on the design. Can you show us the design?

I think Sav's suggestion as to came size sounds perfect. Combine depending on the design, the larger ones for larger pieces the smaller ones for more intricate work.


The image is of a peacock. I originally made the design really too intricate. I am in the process of simplifying. I will post after the design is redrawn. I just wanted to get an idea of sizes.
I may just have to foil tis one. Thanks of your information. I looked at your site. the windows you have seem to be very large. Do all large panels need rebar, even if they are very detailed?

#5 kujo

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Posted 11 April 2008 - 09:15 AM

QUOTE(Savant @ Apr 10 2008, 10:07 PM) View Post
Hey Kujo,

For a piece this large, regardless of where it’s going, a minimum of ½” came on the outside should be used.
I recommend a combination of cames.
3/16” round face lead came for the majority of the field.
5/32” and even 1/8” lead came can be used in the more complex areas in the design.
1/8” is as narrow as it gets, and can be very unforgiving.
At least three ½” pre-tined steel rebars should be used on this one.

24 square feet! that rocks

Sav

1/8” is as narrow as it gets, and can be very unforgiving.
Why is it unforgiving?

#6 sass

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Posted 11 April 2008 - 11:22 AM

QUOTE(kujo @ Apr 11 2008, 09:15 AM) View Post
1/8” is as narrow as it gets, and can be very unforgiving.
Why is it unforgiving?


Because the amount of came between the heart and the edge is so slight. If you aren't extremely careful, you may end up with an edge of one of your glass pieces not fitting snugly into the came, resulting in holes in your work.

With larger came, the edge of the glass can be the slightest bit off and the came will cover it; with 1/8" came, there isn't any extra came to cover imperfections in the cut of the glass.

Hope this helps.

#7 kujo

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Posted 11 April 2008 - 11:33 AM

QUOTE(sass @ Apr 11 2008, 09:22 AM) View Post
Because the amount of came between the heart and the edge is so slight. If you aren't extremely careful, you may end up with an edge of one of your glass pieces not fitting snugly into the came, resulting in holes in your work.

With larger came, the edge of the glass can be the slightest bit off and the came will cover it; with 1/8" came, there isn't any extra came to cover imperfections in the cut of the glass.

Hope this helps.

Thank you I have no more questions.

#8 chinatreasures

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Posted 11 April 2008 - 12:21 PM

QUOTE(kujo @ Apr 11 2008, 12:33 PM) View Post
Thank you I have no more questions.



Oh please, ask more questions. I've been thinking of doing a panel in lead and all these questions and expert answers are invaluable!!

#9 olimpia

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Posted 11 April 2008 - 02:54 PM

QUOTE(kujo @ Apr 11 2008, 09:12 AM) View Post
The image is of a peacock. I originally made the design really too intricate. I am in the process of simplifying. I will post after the design is redrawn. I just wanted to get an idea of sizes.
I may just have to foil tis one. Thanks of your information. I looked at your site. the windows you have seem to be very large. Do all large panels need rebar, even if they are very detailed?




Hi,
I always use rebar on anything that is over 12 feet perimetral. Rebars will run horizontally and will taper at the ends and insert the tips into the frame, that helps it carry the weight of the panel.
Some designs even under that will require it. It really is a matter of design.
I can see a peacock being very intricate but unfortunately I think the weight of the panel bearing on the lower section will be too much. By being intricate it also means it has a lot of lead so it's even heavier. Not to mention it's not easy to handle to begin with.

Once your design is complete perhaps we can look at it we can figure out what it really needs. Maybe you want to do the individual feathers in copper foil and then use them in the panel as single pieces incorporating them in a lead matrix.
I don't do copperfoil, so someone better experienced can chime in regarding building a panel this big in copperfoil.
Hope it helps and post your design when you can!




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