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Lead Came Edging


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#1 MARGARET

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 04:59 PM

Hi Town Square friends - please help me with the following.
I am working with a foil project in a 10 inch circle. (Using the table foiler and it certainly cuts down on the time.)
I purchased a bevel frame - in 8 pieces - for the edging.
I am thinking that perhaps I should use U lead came for the perimeter of the bevel frame instead of foil for strength.
Should I also use H lead came instead of foil for the interior line of the bevel?
Also, would you recommend the joins between the 8 bevel pieces be done in foil or lead?
Hope this is clear. Many thanks for your anticipated in-put.
Margaret.

#2 Chantal

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 10:28 PM

I find that bent zinc does a better job than lead for circular projects. The lead is soft and uneven for edges, whether you use U or H. It gives it a rustic traditional look that works if your project is lead came, but not so much if it is in copper foil.

As for the bevels, it's difficult to say without seeing the pattern!

I expect you'll have different opinions on this question.

#3 MARGARET

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 11:03 PM

I find that bent zinc does a better job than lead for circular projects. The lead is soft and uneven for edges, whether you use U or H. It gives it a rustic traditional look that works if your project is lead came, but not so much if it is in copper foil.

As for the bevels, it's difficult to say without seeing the pattern!

I expect you'll have different opinions on this question.


Thank you Chantal for your reply. I don't know anything about using zinc, but now perhaps would be a good time for me to learn. The bevels are just plain and an inch in width. I chose them as a frame to enhance the final look of the project, whilst not taking away from the original design. I do have a lot to learn about presentation. I can't post a picture because I don't have a camera. Thanks again! Margaret.

#4 Larry from BC

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 03:04 PM

Thank you Chantal for your reply. I don't know anything about using zinc, but now perhaps would be a good time for me to learn. The bevels are just plain and an inch in width. I chose them as a frame to enhance the final look of the project, whilst not taking away from the original design. I do have a lot to learn about presentation. I can't post a picture because I don't have a camera. Thanks again! Margaret.

No doubt some will disagree..but if I was doing this I would foil the whole thing and use the small zinc 1/8 U channel which forms very easily (wthout special tools) around something like this and simply pin it in place while soldering the joint. Add a hanging loop of suitable strength and your done. As mentioned above this also produces a nice looking framed edge with no ripples or ???

#5 MARGARET

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 06:00 PM

No doubt some will disagree..but if I was doing this I would foil the whole thing and use the small zinc 1/8 U channel which forms very easily (wthout special tools) around something like this and simply pin it in place while soldering the joint. Add a hanging loop of suitable strength and your done. As mentioned above this also produces a nice looking framed edge with no ripples or ???


Larry - that's an interesting concept, and it sounds nice and easy for me. I will look up about that zinc and see what I will learn. Thank you for your reply. Margaret.

#6 Larry from BC

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 07:57 PM

Larry - that's an interesting concept, and it sounds nice and easy for me. I will look up about that zinc and see what I will learn. Thank you for your reply. Margaret.

Hi Margaret,
Any stained glass store that sells lead came will also likely have zinc channels as well. Just ask for 1/8 U channel for edging/framing. It is also very inexpensive and also cuts easily with small cutters.

#7 MARGARET

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 08:43 PM

Hi Margaret,
Any stained glass store that sells lead came will also likely have zinc channels as well. Just ask for 1/8 U channel for edging/framing. It is also very inexpensive and also cuts easily with small cutters.


Larry - That's great, thanks again for your input. Margaret

#8 glasslass

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Posted 08 April 2011 - 07:10 PM

Larry - That's great, thanks again for your input. Margaret


Margaret -- I concur with Larry. I have used the zinc U channel and it will work well to surround the outer edge. When I put the zinc on the outside I do not foil the outside edge of the glass. You will also need to make certain any joints are soldered flat where they are to be inserted in the channel.

#9 MARGARET

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Posted 09 April 2011 - 10:23 AM

Margaret -- I concur with Larry. I have used the zinc U channel and it will work well to surround the outer edge. When I put the zinc on the outside I do not foil the outside edge of the glass. You will also need to make certain any joints are soldered flat where they are to be inserted in the channel.


Thanks 'educate 86' for your reply. I took Chantal's advice to use Zinc, and took Larry's advice to use 1/8" zinc, and it is on order. Would you mind telling me, when you use the 1/8" zinc, what did you do about the space between the glass and the zinc? Did you putty? (I have been using Inland Cement for my lead projects.) The bevel edge is 3/32nd, therefore I will have a 1/16th space for movement. I appreciate all the help I receive, and thanks again.
Margaret.

#10 Rebecca

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Posted 09 April 2011 - 10:40 AM

Thanks 'educate 86' for your reply. I took Chantal's advice to use Zinc, and took Larry's advice to use 1/8" zinc, and it is on order. Would you mind telling me, when you use the 1/8" zinc, what did you do about the space between the glass and the zinc? Did you putty? (I have been using Inland Cement for my lead projects.) The bevel edge is 3/32nd, therefore I will have a 1/16th space for movement. I appreciate all the help I receive, and thanks again.
Margaret.


If it is a copper foil piece, you do not putty. You solder every seam to the zinc and that keeps everything from moving.

Rebecca

#11 Larry from BC

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Posted 09 April 2011 - 10:50 AM

Thanks 'educate 86' for your reply. I took Chantal's advice to use Zinc, and took Larry's advice to use 1/8" zinc, and it is on order. Would you mind telling me, when you use the 1/8" zinc, what did you do about the space between the glass and the zinc? Did you putty? (I have been using Inland Cement for my lead projects.) The bevel edge is 3/32nd, therefore I will have a 1/16th space for movement. I appreciate all the help I receive, and thanks again.
Margaret.

Rebecca is right on about soldering the seams..it means you must foil all aorund the pcs obviously and be aware that this tiny 1/8 zinc heats easily and will deform if you press too hard with your iron when it is heated. Just be gentle and try it on a few scraps first and you are off and running. It is quite easy. The flux will pull some solder inside the channel and lock it to the edge of your work.
Go for it :-)

#12 glasslass

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Posted 09 April 2011 - 10:55 AM

If it is a copper foil piece, you do not putty. You solder every seam to the zinc and that keeps everything from moving.

Rebecca


Also, as you move inward from the edge of the bevel, the glass will become thicker so the space you may see will be smaller. As Rebecca says, the soldering will hold it in place.

#13 MARGARET

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Posted 09 April 2011 - 11:26 AM

To Rebecca, Larry and Educate86 - Gosh, thank you for your quick responses. Just as I thought I was getting more confident and my hands no longer shake so much, I have a whole new concept with which to get experienced. I hadn't thought about soldering the joins to the zinc. My hands are shaking again just thinking about the soldering. I also hadn't given any thought to the increase of glass toward the center on the bevels. What a clot I am! Thank you, thank you, thank tou! Margaret.

#14 Rebecca

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Posted 09 April 2011 - 01:36 PM

Rebecca is right on about soldering the seams..it means you must foil all aorund the pcs obviously and be aware that this tiny 1/8 zinc heats easily and will deform if you press too hard with your iron when it is heated. Just be gentle and try it on a few scraps first and you are off and running. It is quite easy. The flux will pull some solder inside the channel and lock it to the edge of your work.
Go for it :-)



I don't foil all the way around the pieces, because you only solder at the seams. It doesn't hurt anything to foil all the way around, but it's a waste of foil and time.

Rebecca

#15 Larry from BC

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Posted 09 April 2011 - 01:56 PM

I don't foil all the way around the pieces, because you only solder at the seams. It doesn't hurt anything to foil all the way around, but it's a waste of foil and time.

Rebecca

For those who have been at this a while that is probably a suitable way to look at it but I don't think that is very good advice to give someone who may not yet be confident with their soldering ability. Also it creates another issue they have to deal with if there is no overlap of foil by going all the way around. If their iron control is not yet as it should be there is always a chancec of lifting the foil where it terminates. (I know that could happen elswhere if iron control is not suitable but that is not the point here)If there is foil behind the areas where a joint meets the edge zinc then you will have a stronger junction.The time saved is tiny and the foil saved is miniscule.I know some who hate foil will disagree but I am from the side of the table that feels a bit of extra provides peace of mind rather than taking every posible shortcut to maximize profit.
Just my 2.043 cents CAD :-)

#16 Stephen Richard

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Posted 09 April 2011 - 05:11 PM

Rebecca is right on about soldering the seams..it means you must foil all aorund the pcs obviously and be aware that this tiny 1/8 zinc heats easily and will deform if you press too hard with your iron when it is heated. Just be gentle and try it on a few scraps first and you are off and running. It is quite easy. The flux will pull some solder inside the channel and lock it to the edge of your work.
Go for it :-)


Larry.
I am concerned that there is the possibility of pressing too hard with the soldering iron. In my view, there should be no more pressure on the soldering than the weight of the iron. The operator's effort should be holding and directing the iron's soldering bit to the joint. There should be no additional downward pressure. Thus there should be no possibility of deforming the zinc during the soldering.
Additional pressure on the iron does not make a better joint. It may stress the iron though, and lead (possibly) to early failure of the iron.

#17 Rebecca

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Posted 09 April 2011 - 05:21 PM

Larry.
I am concerned that there is the possibility of pressing too hard with the soldering iron. In my view, there should be no more pressure on the soldering than the weight of the iron. The operator's effort should be holding and directing the iron's soldering bit to the joint. There should be no additional downward pressure. Thus there should be no possibility of deforming the zinc during the soldering.
Additional pressure on the iron does not make a better joint. It may stress the iron though, and lead (possibly) to early failure of the iron.



I agree with Stephen - no pushing down on the zinc.

I DO foil around the corner onto the outside edge of the glass. But if the glass is ten inches wide, there is no need to foil the entire edge. Going around the corner a bit takes care of any of your objections. If you are stopping right at the edge of the glass, that makes no sense at all.

Rebecca

#18 Larry from BC

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Posted 09 April 2011 - 06:35 PM

Larry.
I am concerned that there is the possibility of pressing too hard with the soldering iron. In my view, there should be no more pressure on the soldering than the weight of the iron. The operator's effort should be holding and directing the iron's soldering bit to the joint. There should be no additional downward pressure. Thus there should be no possibility of deforming the zinc during the soldering.
Additional pressure on the iron does not make a better joint. It may stress the iron though, and lead (possibly) to early failure of the iron.

If you had read and understood my comments to Margaret several entries prior to this there would have been no reason for your statement. Why do you think I was cautioning her to be gentle? Since she had not done this before I was trying to be helpful and have her avoid dimpling or deforming the small 1/8 zinc.

#19 MARGARET

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Posted 09 April 2011 - 08:50 PM

Here I am again. Thank you all for your interest. When the zinc is delivered and I have completed the process I will let you all know how I managed. Keep your fingers crossed for me - but not while you are working with glass of course. Happy days! Margaret.

#20 Larry from BC

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Posted 09 April 2011 - 09:20 PM

Here I am again. Thank you all for your interest. When the zinc is delivered and I have completed the process I will let you all know how I managed. Keep your fingers crossed for me - but not while you are working with glass of course. Happy days! Margaret.

I am guessing you will do just fine. If you have trouble cutting the small zinc to proper length regular wire cutters will work in a pinch.Just mark the zinc at the appropriate point and cut both sides. (A hack saw does not work well on this stuff) Bend it back and forth a few times and it will snap apart. That is not ideal but will work until you decide which tools are best for you.You might have to use neeedle nose pliers to return the "cut ends to the correct shape after cutting but this material is quite pliable so should not be a problem. If you can try to shape the cut ends to provide a bit of overlap that will make soldering the perimeter joint easier and stronger. There are lots of ways to address this issue but if you are new to this concept that will at least get you out of trouble. I am sure there will be lots of opinions on this. Just trying to keep it simple and real :-)




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