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My Practice With Cutting/grozing


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#1 Tom Mazanec

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Posted 03 May 2015 - 09:54 AM

Well, last Wednesday I finally got the cutter properly oiled with the instructor's help, and today I finally got around to practicing getting close enough for some grinding (this is as far as I went...I do not have a grinder of my own yet). I did three pieces and ruined the second...of course, I purposely drew difficult pieces with a lot of inside curves.

Since we have cut out all the pieces for my fish, I will be grinding/foiling/etc. for a few weeks, and still have a chance to practice before I start my elephant (I will have to buy my own glass for that...I do not want a multi-colored elephant!).



#2 Boris_USA

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 10:20 PM

Well, last Wednesday I finally got the cutter properly oiled with the instructor's help, and today I finally got around to practicing getting close enough for some grinding (this is as far as I went...I do not have a grinder of my own yet). I did three pieces and ruined the second...of course, I purposely drew difficult pieces with a lot of inside curves.

Since we have cut out all the pieces for my fish, I will be grinding/foiling/etc. for a few weeks, and still have a chance to practice before I start my elephant (I will have to buy my own glass for that...I do not want a multi-colored elephant!).

 


Practice all you can, and don't worry about what you break doing it.  We all have a history with a lot of broken glass.  Comes with the hobby.



#3 Tod Beall

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 03:33 PM

Use cheap/free glass for at least some of the practicing.

Ultimately, of course, the better you cut, the less you have to grind.



#4 Tom Mazanec

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Posted 23 May 2015 - 02:12 PM

I finally got around to a little more practice, now that my second project is coming closer (hey, reading all those stained glass books takes time :-) ).

I just went into the first one, so I discarded it and got the next two close enough for quite a bit of grinding.

I'll try to practice again a time or two soon.



#5 Tod Beall

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Posted 23 May 2015 - 05:55 PM

I had a student a few years ago who had taken lessons previously. She had been taught that you should use a standard Sharpie to draw the cut line on the glass - that's about 1/8" wide! THEN, she cut nearly 1/4" away from the line!! She said her previous teacher taught that method; she was prepared to grind 1/4" or more from every side. >sigh<

 

So, it's important to figure out the correct cutting pressure for each type of glass. With practice, you will be able to score where the cut actually belongs. Then, there are techniques to practice which let us break out the glass closer and closer to the score line. Finally, that grozing practice will get the glass pretty close.

 

I usually get mighty irritated when some "old pros" on the boards tell us that we should score & break perfectly every time and grinding should be seldom, if ever done. Often they are referring to pretty simple shapes, of course. Personally, I think practice, helpful suggestions from patient teachers and determination will get most folks well along their way to competence with confidence.

 

Glass on, Tom!!



#6 Tom Mazanec

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Posted 23 May 2015 - 06:08 PM

Of course, I try the hardest shapes I can draw :)



#7 Mt_Top

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 09:15 PM

Finally, that grozing practice will get the glass pretty close.

 

The lost art of grozing!  

 

Here are a couple pics of my original "glass grinder".  Still works after 30 some years.

Mt_Top_Glass_Grinder_sideview.JPG

 

Silicone Carbide Sharpening Stone, non-electric, just about ready to split in half (double in value?  2 for 1?)

Mt_Top_Glass_Grinder_endview.JPG



#8 Tom Mazanec

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 08:56 AM

I have not practiced in a couple weeks. I had a flood and a busted HVAC system, and my furniture is all pressed against the wall. I was getting fairly good pieces about three out of four tries. When my condo is back in shape I will try to practice some more.



#9 Rebecca

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 01:26 PM

Been there, done that...  I'm so sorry you had to go through it!

 

Rebecca



#10 Tod Beall

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 08:28 PM

Good luck, Tom.



#11 Tom Mazanec

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Posted 22 July 2015 - 04:08 PM

Since Eileen was not in and Joyce was helping Vicki, I took the scrap glass from the local window and mirror store and practiced. Had some bad luck, maybe I am out of practice (though I tried to do hard shapes). I think one piece was unbreakable glass!



#12 Knight

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Posted 23 July 2015 - 07:01 AM

I had a student a few years ago who had taken lessons previously. She had been taught that you should use a standard Sharpie to draw the cut line on the glass - that's about 1/8" wide! THEN, she cut nearly 1/4" away from the line!! She said her previous teacher taught that method; she was prepared to grind 1/4" or more from every side. >sigh<

 

So, it's important to figure out the correct cutting pressure for each type of glass. With practice, you will be able to score where the cut actually belongs. Then, there are techniques to practice which let us break out the glass closer and closer to the score line. Finally, that grozing practice will get the glass pretty close.

 

I usually get mighty irritated when some "old pros" on the boards tell us that we should score & break perfectly every time and grinding should be seldom, if ever done. Often they are referring to pretty simple shapes, of course. Personally, I think practice, helpful suggestions from patient teachers and determination will get most folks well along their way to competence with confidence.

 

Glass on, Tom!!

 

Lazy habits translate the best!

 

My motto is to get it on the first run, grinding is seen as an option, but not the first. I would say only a tenth or less of the glass that goes into a panel I am building gets ground on the grinder. As your cutting skills inmprove you will find yourself using it less and less and the speed at which you produce pieces ready to foil will increase!

 

I also think that there is a big difference in cutting and shaping glass in what medium you are using to build the panel with. If you are foiling the edges need to be clean to accept the foil adhesive, if you are leading the edges can be chewed with grozing pliers and not very pretty at all if hidden under the lead face.

 

There have been many times when taking apart an old panel it looks like the first artist used his or her teeth to get the glass to shape!



#13 Tod Beall

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Posted 23 July 2015 - 08:26 AM

Knight's right about seeing how the old-timers managed to get glass shaped into some pretty gnarly shapes without grinders.

And they are basically all in lead. Funny, too, that many of those old windows are done with pretty small leads - often 5/32  to 3/16 wide. Also funny to see where visible mistakes aren't really visible until you get up close for cleaning or repair! And this isn't even about adjusting thicker glass to fit into smaller leads! That's a whole 'nother issue. 

 

Remember that some shapes are impossible to break out of standard (1/8") glass. They need grozing or grinding. I wouldn't get too bogged down with perfecting your cutting & grozing at the expense of getting some projects done, either using simpler shapes or the grinder. Practicing breaking & shaping the glass takes lots of time and costs many broken pieces. And, while practicing on cheap clear glass is great, it's not a perfect analog for all colored glasses.



#14 Rebecca

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Posted 23 July 2015 - 09:16 AM

If a piece of glass doesn't want to cut at all, it is possible that it is safety glass (tempered glass or laminated glass.)  If it is tempered glass, when it finally does something; it will break into a zillion little pieces.  SURPRISE!  Be sure you wear safety glasses.  If it is laminated glass, it will probably break or run, but there will be a layer of film that will still hold the glass together.

 

Rebecca



#15 John

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Posted 23 July 2015 - 09:37 PM

Remember you do not have to have a perfect fit.  A small gap which allows the solder to reach from front to back will actually make the piece stronger.





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