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Working With Bevels#2

lead&bevels

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#1 Vitric Visions

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 11:35 AM

 
 
20170905 121009bevel door design 9 5 2017 12 10 09 PM 9 5 2017 12 10 09 PM
 
 
So, here I am. I've worked with bevels and lead before...not my first rodeo, but this time I'm asking for help before I get frustrated and have to groze a ton.
I've laid out the design and now need to do the math to make sure I account for lead width...I just want to now how other people do this - is there a method to follow?
 
Thanks!
 
 

 



#2 Vitric Visions

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 02:46 PM

The words"this is not my first rodeo" are haunting me..I tried to edit my post but couldn't....I wanted to imply I've worked with lead and bevels before but it has been a while. I'm frankly humbled by all I've forgotten. I'm feeling old and I'm trying to work with what I have on hand.

 

 



#3 Tod Beall

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 06:43 PM

Makes me smile....

So, you need to get the bevels in the correct orientation & relation to each other, then account for the heart of the actual lead you'll use everywhere. Also makes me smile!

 

This looks pretty tricky and I'm anxious to read a suggestion from someone who has successfully done this! And who has a smarter method than I'll think of right now. However...

 

Personally, I would draw an accurate outline of the perimeter with heart/empty-channel allowances. Then, sketch in horizontal & vertical center-lines. I'd probably add several more horizontal & vertical lines (lightly) to help guide the placement of the various borders. Then, one might plop the diamonds in place and trace around each piece with a sharp pencil. The quasi-grid should help keep them properly oriented.

 

I'd also carefully measure the widths of all the long, thin pieces; if they aren't identical, well, you know..... Then you can draw accurate "cutlines" which will really be placement lines.

 

What might surprise is that I think I'd start by building from the center! Not typical, but can be the easiest in some situations. And, assume there will be some grinding as the few mass-produced bevels I've messed with were woefully inaccurate.

 

That's probably more than 2¢ worth - I can't wait for the next comments!!!

 

PS: It's also important to get an accurate measurement of the heart width of each lead you're going to use.

 

Finally, I think it's smarter to NOT use bevels around the perimeter of a window since flat glass fits into the perimeter lead (then into the frame stock) much better. Look to historical evidence which shows that very few old windows were made with bevels at the edges!



#4 WayneFL

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 05:48 AM

I have found that working with patterns eliminates most assembly problems.   That being said, I found also that complex bevel designs create lots of problems and simple full diamond designs have problems because the diamond bevels are not the same size.

 

As Tod mentioned, tradition shows that the best results take place when the window mounting just covers the glass in the lead (or glass in the zinc).  Non beveled border pieces work better this way.



#5 Mt_Top

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 10:42 AM

Looks like there are 7 lead lines going the long dimension.  

 

7 x heart width = expansion  

 

If the heart width of the lead came is 1/16",   then 7 x 1/16" = 7/16" of expansion (almost 1/2")

 

The center of this window will be about a half inch wider, but the end of the window that only has 3 bevels will be 2 x 1/16" = 1/8" wider

 

I'm lazy, so I would cut 7 short lengths of came, slide the came pieces between the bevels and then measure how much the window expands.

 

Expansion lengthwise will be even harder to figure out.   Copper foil adds less space between pieces and would also let you change the spacing between pieces if needed.



#6 Tod Beall

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 08:01 AM

This is a great tip from Mt-Top.

Mocking up the project can highlight the potential problems and offer reliable options. Using bits of the preferred lead to create the proper space between glass pieces can be super helpful.

 

I'm lazy, so I would cut 7 short lengths of came, slide the came pieces between the bevels and then measure how much the window expands.






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